I'm really typing this so I don't need to read my homework, so be warned I guess.
[05:49] Dwip: *sigh* Mac people.
[05:50] Dwip: Also Linux people.
[05:50] Whir: Eh?
[05:52] Dwip: Oh, reading people talking about Vista. The comment thread is overrun with people going "omg win0wz is teh sux0rz lol"
[05:52] Whir: Pft.
[05:52] Dwip: Mostly people going "Yeah, OS X is the shit."
[05:53] Dwip: You know, I've used OS X about twice. How people actually get anything done on Macs is beyond me.
[05:53] Dwip: Then again I have the most bizzare desktop setup known to man.
[05:54] Whir: You do, actually.
[05:54] Whir: I can do stuff in OSX, it's not too bad.
[05:56] Dwip: I tried on Laurent's laptop a couple times. I guess you might use it for things, but I fail to see the fuss.
[05:56] Dwip: And Linux people, well, let us not go there.
[05:56] Dwip: Also I just feel the need to rip on Apple for the one button mouse thing.
[05:57] Dwip: In 40 years, when everyone's using thought controlled computers, I'll still be ripping on Apple for the one button mouse.
[05:58] Dwip: "Right, ok. So hold this key on the keyboard down, and drag things with the mouse. It's such a good move."
[05:58] Dwip: No, really, it's not. You're fucking high.
[05:59] Whir: They don't have one-button mouse anymore.
[05:59] Dwip: And let's be honest. Appleworks has always sucked.
[06:00] Dwip: You think reality matters to me in a case like that?
[06:01] Dwip: I mean, fuck. It's a mouse with one button. It's like saying "Ok, guys. There's the barbarian hordes. Take this wooden sword. Good luck."
[06:01] Whir: You have issues.
[06:01] Dwip: Just noticed that did you?
[06:02] Dwip: Besides, what are people doing with Win XP that's so goddamn unstable, anyway?
[06:02] Dwip: Which seems to be half the problems people have.
[06:03] Whir: I have no idea.
[06:03] Whir: Works pretty well for me.
[06:03] Dwip: Like, I might have made it BSOD once.
[06:03] Dwip: Actually a few times, but that was because my laptop's HD ate itself.
[06:03] Dwip: Every so often a program crashes.
[06:04] Dwip: And, uh...that's it, really.
[06:04] Dwip: I mean, it's not like it's WinME here.
[06:05] Dwip: "You glanced at your monitor. Windows must crash to maybe possibly update settings. Or maybe it's really eating your registry. Who knows?"
[06:05] Dwip: Or Win95. "You have moved your mouse." *BSOD*
[06:06] Dwip: I obviously need sleep.
Brought about by this post of John Scalzi's, a dose of this review that was linked somewhere, and childhood scarring brought about by an Apple IIe.
To be honest, of course, this is just me randomly poking things with sticks. It's pretty unlikely I'll be getting Vista any time within, say, the next couple of years. Because, honestly, XP Pro does everything I need it to do, and does it in a way that I'm very comfortable with. About my only complaint is that it doesn't save folder views in Explorer very well. And you know? I can deal with that. I'm ok with that.
I'm wildly curious, as I alude to in the IM, about the number of people who think XP is a buggy, crash-prone thing. Because seriously, I do a lot of stuff with my computer. I game on it, I use it to type documents, look at photos, you name it. I use all sorts of bizzare 3rd party applications. And you know how many times I've had any issues at all?
1. On the laptop, I kept getting BSODs and eventually had to reinstall. This is because my hard drive destroyed itself. XP is nowhere to blame.
2. Had to reinstall on my desktop once. Why? I rebuilt the entire system with more or less all new components. Not Windows' fault.
3. Bootup issue #1: Power got cut suddenly, comp went off, took two tries to get XP back up. Marginally XP's fault.
4. Left my flash drive in. BIOS tried to boot from it. Not XP's fault.
That's in about 5 years of using XP, since 2002. How this compares to my experience with Windows 98 and 95 is best left unexamined for the sake of those older OSes.
Now, all jesting aside, I guess Mac people are happy with what they have, and Linux people somehow deal with what they have. I already know that I'll be going to Vista at some point. It's really like this:
1. I've been using MS operating systems since like, MS-DOS 5 or so. All my stuff works on Windows.
2. I'm a gamer. No matter what they try to claim, Macs and Linux lose right there. All by itself this is the biggest reason.
3. MS Office. No, Open Office and anything I've ever used on a Mac, you lose. Sorry about that. But as much as I love to hate Access, I actually like Office fairly well.
4. I have yet to meet an Apple OS, including OS X, that I like. I was also traumatized by the one button mouse, but. The less we talk about the abortions that I find Linux interfaces to be, the better. Here's a hint, guys: Command line interface? SO 1980s.
5. Also, I'm a gamer. I may have mentioned this.
Now, as regards Vista, my biggest issues are:
1. Does it do anything I really gotta have right now? If I read that review right, not really. Maybe security. Since I basically have zero trouble ever with that sort of thing, I am not so worried as I might otherwise be. I could really care less about it looking awesome, because, well, let's be honest here. Windows Classic UI pretty much exists for me. Sideboard? Media center stuff? Couldn't care less. Maybe search, maybe explorer if they didn't fuck it up completely (I'm that guy that was using File Manager until they took it out in XP, and was horrified by My Computer).
2. Can I run Ultima VII on it? Presumably on the 32 bit versions. Jury's out on 64. Since 64 is the wave of the future, I am unhappy about this. Yes, I have an irrational love of games that are going on 20 years old.
I should probably do homework now.
Posted by Dwip at February 2, 2007 2:00 PMVista Shmista. That's all I hear anyone yacking about these days. People, you need to get lives! :P
Vista isn't going to be worth bothering with on any level until at least Service Pack 2. Anyone who has used XP knows this to be fact, and Windows 98 before that. We'll skip the abortion that was WinME.
Security? XP with SP2, Symantec AV, a firewall program, and common sense are all you need.
Now, I think you're assessment of Linux is about 10 years out of date. Clearly you have not touched one of the more recent distros such as Ubuntu, SuSe, or even Linspire( aka Lindows ). The GUI in linux has come a very long way in the last couple of years.
I have no real opinion on OSX just yet as I haven't had an opportunity to sit down and actually use it for real other than brief stops at CompUSA to fiddle with the demo machines. But what little I saw was quite impressive. Being productive on your PC has only partial dependence on the OS and once you get used to it, you don't think about it anymore. There's a learning curve with any chance. You're just being stubborn :P
Now on the gaming issue, I agree. Until linux or Mac does something to vastly increase those markets, they'll be niches forever. Which I find sad, because frankly I'd rather use one of them.
So you don't know how XP can become so unstable and die die die die die die a lot? Come work in IT support for 6 months and you too can know hell as you've never known hell before. Spyware, viruses, spam, the BSOD, corrupted file systems, users somehow managing to do really stupid things they shouldn't have been able to do. It happens far more often than you might think. Of course, one could blame all this on the corporate culture of the bottom line. They buy cheap piece of shit Dell and IBM PCs, load them up with Microsoft operating systems, and Microsoft Office apps, and then wonder why they spend so much on the IT budget when those programs promptly hate you for no reason. Not to mention the financial side of all this. If corporate IT people had brains we would in fact all be using linux or Mac at work. If for no other reason than licensing costs. But I'm digressing badly now, so I'll stop :)
Posted by: Samson at February 3, 2007 8:00 AMI figured you might have something to say on the subject. ;)
XP, straight out of the box, was so utterly superior to either ME or either version of 98 as to defy description. There's a lot to be said for an OS where if you plug it in, it just works.
No, playing with IRQ settings in DOS, I don't miss you at all.
98 to me was only moderately better than either version of Win 95, but at least had the immortal toolbar. Even 98 SE was ludicrously unstable for me (it ate my registry...twice? Three times?)
And yeah, I dunno, maybe I'm just that much smarter than the average computer using bear, but I've been virus and spyware ridden in XP (thanks for reminding me of those two days I'll never get back), and it still never brought me down the way it would have in the 98 SE days. PITA to remove, but I didn't need to reinstall the OS.
XP SP2, NAV, and a firewall will indeed get you far.
As to the other OSes...
I've used various Apple OSes off and on since the 80s, and OS X is the only one I thought was marginally worthwhile. Of course, during that same stretch of time I generally came away feeling like any given application was utter crap, but I admit that I haven't used modern Macs enough to really know.
But yes, using Macs in the 80s and early 90s has given me a stubborn hatred of them. :P
Linux, well, my last hands on experience was a while ago. The archaity of trying to get anything done on the Alsherok shell has stuck with me, however, and I hear enough people talk about installing this or that on some Linux version to have developed an automatic "You know, in XP I wouldn't even be worrying about this" reaction.
In its defense, I will say that whatever it was I saw about 6 years ago, it had multiple desktops like I'd like to see them done. Wish I could do it in Windows. But I'll live.
Posted by: Dwip at February 3, 2007 11:13 AMOh, and as to lives, you guys almost got my reading list. So. My homework avoidance knows no bounds.
Posted by: Dwip at February 3, 2007 11:14 AM